Wherein, Kelly rants like a cranky old broad, which, except for the “old” part, may in fact be true
1. Commenting Is Dead
A friend of mine linked to an old post of his from 2005 the other day. I was floored by the comment section—full of people tossing substantial ideas around, growing their own brains and the pool of knowledge—vs. most comment sections today including his own—yes, wow, thanks, and little else.
I hate to say it, but both “back in the day” and “what’s become of us nowadays” spring to mind. Just being around the blogosphere for a very few years has made me feel nostalgic for the good ol’ days, and shocked at our backwards progress.
2. Linkbacks Are Dead
Remember when “linking out” was like footnotes in your school papers—essential proof that your ideas had a leg to stand on—and was both a growth strategy for the linker and an absolute must come visit and say thank you, for the linkee, helping us all to expand our circles beyond our original blog buddies?
Hello? Anybody?
3. Forums Are Dead.
Related to both 1 and 2. I belong to five or six forum-style “niche networking” sites. With the exception of one, they have all gone pretty well dormant. This, I admit, I haven’t tried to stop. I was never very active in them in the beginning (for shame, Kelly), hoping to catch on to the conversations and gradually increase participation, but instead, they’ve come to slow, aching deaths over the course of a couple of years. Where once I hoped to exchange ideas and refill the mental well, now they are all dried up.
4. (If you don’t write about cats or use foul language or feed fantasies of pitching a humdrum real life for the glam of barely working, but doing it on your own utterly lazy terms in your bathrobe) Blog Growth Is Dead.
Am I being too dire here? I don’t think so. Guides on how to be effortlessly rich, beautiful, controversial, or how to waste time without using brain cells do continue to be popular. So I can’t say blogging is dead, yet. But the medium, once such fertile ground for incredible minds to consider, in bite-sized digests, serious topics you could put together into your own customized Masters’ Degree in anything at all, is in danger of only being able to provide a Masters’ in farting around, in very short order. Some of the sharpest, most useful, most well-written blogs I read are experiencing darned close to zero growth these days. It’s criminal.
Heck, even StumbleUpon and Digg, which were once engines of growth and a way of thanking a blog author for his or her work, are in decline.
What’s the common thread: when they were alive, commenting, linking out, participating in forums, and subscribing to (and reading) blogs, all required effort, graciousness, a desire to be part of a community* of like-minded folks, and the realization that we get out of things what we put into them.
What’s not dead? Twitter.
Please Tweet this.
Grow and be well,
Kelly Erickson
*NB: Faux community is nothing like a real, functioning community. After I’d finished this post, James wrote Screw Community on this very subject at Men With Pens. A rant after my own heart!













22 September 2009, 6:51 am
When yesterday’s Screw Community post had 30 comments before noon, I was all, “What the…?” Funny thing is that six to eight months ago, 45 comments per post was the average norm.
The thrill wore off. Now commenting only happens when people get REALLY excited. I think.
Twitter… meh. Even that’s getting old.
What didn’t get old? Posting. God forbit you miss feeding the machine. *rolls eyes*
James Chartrand – Men with Pens´s latest blog… Screw Community
22 September 2009, 7:39 am
I think, to be honest, this is just the natural progression of the online world.
Here’s what I mean – it follows television, in many ways.
Used to be you could find well written shows where you could learn something. Real actors.
Yeah, they’re still out there, in a sea of reality TV – low quality, low budget, maximum impact. Language (albeit beeped out), cat(fights), and so forth.
And then… well, because there are so many choices out here, and so many people today are “go go go” (I bet many people don’t even read the full blog post before commenting, if they comment) – the quick, hard hitting stuff seems to win.
The biggest thing I’ve noticed – and I’ve not been at this long, keep that in mind – over the last year or so, a lot of places have become “opposing view unfriendly”.
You go to a big blog where there are bound to be 100 or 200 comments, heaven forbid you disagree with the author (I mean, how *could* she be wrong, if she has 200 comments, right?) – BOOM a million people want to sacrifice you.
So you stop going… and look for other places to go.
My own personal case – well, I’m still reading all of the places I used to read a year ago. I still comment at places, from time to time, I suppose I’ve just been working on other things (like survival, before my company implodes!)
If you keep writing good stuff, people will keep reading it.
22 September 2009, 7:46 am
@ Brett –
This is pretty normal human behavior, though. In fact, I’d *expect* that any person with an opposing view coming into a group that agrees *should* meet with resistance.
Kind of like someone grabbing beer and a hot dog, making his way to the middle of the grandstand in a packed Leafs game and suddenly standing up to shout, “GO CANADIENS!!!”
Uh… run for cover, buddy.
James Chartrand – Men with Pens´s latest blog… Screw Community
22 September 2009, 7:59 am
Funny. I just walked by a car decked out in Green Bay Packers (football) goop, here in the land of the Philadelphia Eagles, on taking The Kid to the bus stop, and I was thinking exactly these thoughts about conformism. Y’all are scaring me.
James,
Absolutely. You have to create excitement to see commenting like “the good ol’ days.”
Problems:
1. I don’t want to change my writing for the sake of “creating excitement.” Not very true to myself, that, though if it happens once in a while, that’s dandy.
2. The comments you get on such a post often don’t further the discussion. No matter how some may giggle—yeah, I write here and read elsewhere for the discussion. For the community. To see ideas bloom.
I suppose I’m looking back to a utopia that seemed on the horizon and then zigzagged away? An optical illusion caused by being around since Blogoland was a smaller place?
Hm.
Brett,
Thoughtful, as always. Thanks for that.
Maybe it is a natural progression. So, what’s to be done about it, should anything be done about it, can anything be done about it, is raging against the machine of any use whatsoever?
Are we the Me generation all over again, but this time, the Me in a Dark Office All Alone With a Screen Glowing on my Face generation?
I’m not done thinking about this, as you can see…
Regards,
Kelly
22 September 2009, 8:03 am
@Kelly
Blogging’s still there, but you’re right. It’s peaked. It’s jumped the shark. Used to be something novel..now everyone and their dog is doing it.
Everyone’s a “Life Coach” trying to tell you how to make your life better.
Everyone’s a “Social Media Consultant” trying to help your Internet Business Be All That It Can Be.
Everyone’s a Self-Acclaimed Expert in something, on which they’ve written an E-book. And won’t you please buy it? Only $200. (But buy NOW, because the price goes up to $400 next week)
As for Twitter. You’re not missing much. It used to be like the Wild West. You could say anything. Like Open Mike Night at the Improv.
Now, it’s mostly spammers, celebrities, and major corporations. And Snake-Oil Salesmen trying to sell you their snake-oil. (Plus the assorted Life Coaches, Social Media COnsultants, and Experts).
But still, once in a while you come across some wheat among the chaff. And if you’ve accumulated a small group of on-line friends, it can still be fun. That’s why I still do it.
@James
How about shouting “GO NORDIQUES!” at the Montreal Forum? (Back a few years ago…when the Nordiques and the Forum still existed).
22 September 2009, 8:06 am
@ Friar – I have one. “Vive le Quebec!” on Canada Day. Or to guarantee getting shot, “Vive le Quebec libre!”
James Chartrand – Men with Pens´s latest blog… Screw Community
22 September 2009, 8:20 am
Friar,
So true, so true. The key for me is to walk with blinders on past the snake-oil salesmen and stay focussed on what brought me into this wild wild web. I still believe that a singular focus on the subject you’ve chosen, and on making great, discussable content is the only online strategy anyone needs.
Hence why I don’t have an ebook to sell on rockin’ blog-authoring. Not my subject, ‘cept during the occasional rant. And I’ve just said the entirety of what I can say about it.
James,
I hear “Happy Canada Day” en Quebec on Canada Day ain’t too good, either.
Until later,
Kelly
22 September 2009, 9:43 am
@James,
Of course, that makes sense – but… with blogging and comments, it is worse.
Some of the blogs seem to suffer from “groupthink” to the point of either being unfriendly to newcomers or boring.
And this is where the problems begin, this is why you see declining numbers of comments.
I don’t want to interact with people who think exactly like I do, otherwise I’d stand in front of the mirror and talk to myself.
I like a good conversation.
So if I go to a blog and either get shot down all the time because I don’t agree, or get ignored because I don’t agree, or find that there’s nothing interesting to discuss because everyone thinks the same way…
Well, then I won’t go there.
And I’m afraid a lot of blogs are getting that way (not saying yours is, or this one) – and so, people find something else to do.
I don’t know what to do to fix it, though.
@Kelly,
Hee hee I do my best…
What’s to be done? Hmm. I’d say, “be yourself”. People will come and find you, if you are genuine and have something great to say. Don’t change.
I’d rather have 5 great and different comments from 5 great people than 200 similar comments from “yes-men”.
We might be the Me generation all over again, and it is easier to be selfish when there’s no physical interaction.
22 September 2009, 9:50 am
@ Brett – That’s an interesting perspective. Do you feel that by walking away from resistance, it’s not contributing to the problem of groupthink?
Could be a personality thing. While I do sometimes get fed up and stop debating my perspective, I typically don’t walk away from situations because of it – nor do I conform if it’s something I believe in.
Dunno. Good discussion here, anyways
James Chartrand – Men with Pens´s latest blog… Screw Community
22 September 2009, 9:57 am
Hm. Good rant. Brain must think about it. But yes, I think you’re right. Although I think it is transition we are seeing. And sheer lack of time.
I would say go Cowboys, but at the moment I’m still smiling that Eli’s team beat them this weekend.
22 September 2009, 10:13 am
@Brett
I agree….some blogs are just a haven for the Brown-Nosers. Someone writes something mediocre…and everyone chimes in and tells the Naked Emperor how great their new clothes are.
Ho-hum. (Wake me when it’s over).
But if you dare have an OPPOSING opinion, the Cool Kids dismiss you, or ignore your.
Or worse, get downright nasty or abusive. Remember that Environemntal blog last month?) I will NEVER go back there.
Group-think like that, I don’t need. Life’s too short for that kind of aggravation.
22 September 2009, 10:21 am
@James,
Not at all – except that in blogoland, it is different from reality.
“Walking away from resistance” that is just a conversation with a bunch of people I probably will never meet (and would never have conversed with before the internet) is zero loss for me, especially if I’m just doing it for fun, and especially if it ceases to be fun.
It is zero loss for many people.
It isn’t like we’re marching on the Hill for civil rights. It isn’t even like having a good debate with your “realspace” friends over a beer.
It is pretty low on the commitment scale, because I’m not making money doing it. I’m doing it for pleasure.
So if the pleasure’s gone… why do it?
I’ve heard it said you can’t change other people, only yourself. So… if I try to make my point and no one cares (or worse, they shoot me down), well, I change myself and my habits. I find something more productive to do with my time, something more enjoyable.
And… here’s where Kelly’s “me” thing comes in – why should I waste my time arguing my point with a bunch of people I will never meet if it isn’t going to affect my bottom line?
(I’m not meaning “me” personally, just the line of thinking might go something like this.)
Yes, it is a good discussion (which is why we’re still here!)
22 September 2009, 10:25 am
If people aren’t forum-ing and they aren’t commenting and they aren’t link-ing, then what the hell *are* they doing?
Andy Hayes´s latest blog… Gran Canaria: An Island for Everyone
22 September 2009, 10:45 am
Andy,
Working?
22 September 2009, 10:46 am
@Kelly – Who called it? And in James’ blog no less: http://menwithpens.ca/web-design-trends-2009
I don’t think that the blog is dead necessarily, it’s just going to become more specialized. People don’t think about going “on the Internet” like they used to — now it’s this ubiquitous tool that just is. Some use it for Facebook, others for checking maps (apparently not Packers’ fans though…), but the common denominator is that it is no longer just “going online”, its what you do after which is the beauty part.
(Dare I say, the medium is no longer the message?)
So too with blogging. It is not that basic, all-encompassing concept of “blog”, but rather a method of communicating that can be adapted to a number of uses. After all, a blog can really be anything: an online journal, a news aggregator, even a recipe collection.
But this whole concept of “community” I think has a fatal flaw. You can’t look people in the eye, shake their hand, give them a hug, or admire their purple boots in person. The “Me in a Dark Office All Alone With a Screen Glowing on my Face generation” can’t exist for long, and the decline of blogs and blogging community is a testament to that. A person isolated from society with only the Internet to connect them would go crazy in only a slightly longer time due to lack of human contact.
Because the Internet isn’t contact. It’s the exchange of ideas, good debates, even a way to meet new friends. But it’s not contact. That’s why all the books and movies are written about the Internet friends who meet in person, and not about those who never physically meet.
@Brett and James – Yes, I think it’s normal human behaviour to exclude others from a group, whether it is in a blogging forum, in a hockey arena, or in high school. People run in packs, except we call them “cliques” or “clubs” or “cell phone service providers”. Part of being included in that club is knowing who should be excluded. After all, your not special if the club isn’t special, and the club ain’t special if any ol’ person can get in. (You know, like the Judean People’s Front. Wankers.)
Go Bruins.
~Graham
22 September 2009, 11:02 am
@Janice
BWAHAHAHAH!
Good one!
Friar´s latest blog… (…………)
22 September 2009, 11:16 am
Friar,
22 September 2009, 2:44 pm
Brett,
Oh, so true. Not seeing the effects of one’s actions…
I’ll wind up off on a tangent for sure if I follow that thought. But yeah. That has to increase the ME-ness of the online universe.
Janice,
I’m awfully quiet on days when my beloved Patriots are playing, around here…
Transition to what, eh? I imagine in another year or two we’ll have all the answers. This world morphs fast.
Andy,
They’re in the Grand Canaries, if they’re smart…
Graham,
I definitely do not think blogging is dead. (Though I love those predictions, your changes are coming to pass in some ways!) But blog growth in proportion to the quality of ideas being put forth… that’s what I’m afraid has died.
Ooh, the fatal flaw of online community gives me chills. Because I do love the idea of having the whole world in my living room, or being in the whole world’s living room, in order to raise ideas I wouldn’t get to IRL, or answer questions that are unanswerable without a much larger circle of influence. I do hope there’s a way through (now I can’t wait to look back on this in 2011), rather than having to accept that it’s fatally flawed!
Back to the bottom-line/ zero-loss idea,
Maybe folks felt like they had skin in the (online) game once, only a couple of short years ago. Like they had something to gain and something to lose. Boy, that’s a very interesting idea. When I look over my friend’s 2005 comment section that started this rant, many of the folks who were tossing ideas around are “big-name” today. And, ironically, don’t go far afield from their own blogs, even for their friends, now.
Does this mean that they didn’t believe in the community, but were… dare I say it… using it for their gain?
Eew, I hate that thought. (Yes, yes, I know we humans all have self-interest at heart, but I don’t think that excludes group-interests…)
On the optimistic, or at least brainstorming-hopefully side—are there ways to help people feel they DO have skin in the game, and bring back a sense of WE? I don’t mean here at MCE, necessarily, because honestly this wasn’t about MCE, but as a larger issue.
Loving this conversation, folks!
Until later,
Kelly
22 September 2009, 5:07 pm
Hm, great points. I think we’ve all upped our game actually and that takes a lot of time and effort. Our peers respect that. Know that all they have to do is ask and we’ll come, but on a day to day basis we have pretty full plates.
I read way more, yet comment less now. Although, I am about to do another subscription purge. A lot of the time I tweet or retweet to give something I really like support instead of commenting, endorsing it in “public” to get it out there,especially for my friends…like we do in person .
22 September 2009, 5:27 pm
Back in the early 90′s, when the Internet was relatively new, we used to make fun of geeks who spent all their time on chat-rooms, glued to their computers.
But now…it’s become “Social Media”, and we have a COMMUNITY and a sense of OBLIGATION.
And we pat ourselves on the back, for trying to change the world, by blogging about World Hunger for one day. Or temporarily changing the color of our Avatars to support the latest cause.
Ooh, lookit US.
But when you come down to it, we’re still a bunch of geeks spending all our time in chat-rooms, glued to the computer.
Friar´s latest blog… (…………)
23 September 2009, 7:02 am
Janice,
Something gained, but something lost also in that. I think you’re on to it, though. What you’re going through is likely what a lot of folks are going through.
Friar,
The ‘net didn’t do it to me—I’ve been a proud geek since birth! That doesn’t bother me a bit. Still, even in those chat-rooms, there was community and obligation. (At least in some of them) People would get to know each others’ personalities, miss each other if they didn’t show up for a while, etc. Without that kind of community feeling, everything from open-source software to wikipedia would not exist…
Human nature to try for community, even without the usual real-life cues, I think. But ME does get in the way easier online.
Later,
Kelly
23 September 2009, 10:38 am
I used to worry about not having a lot of comments on my site then (thanks to your advice), I stopped thinking of what I write as a blog that inspires community, but articles that inspire confidence in the products and services I offer.
The blog model is evolving as it becomes another piece of an entrepreneur’s tool kit rather than the whole business.
Personally I’m glad commenting is dead because honestly I don’t have time to live up to the obligation. With all my writing and my desire to have a life away from the computer I choose to read blogs once or twice a week, max.
Alex Fayle | Someday Syndrome´s latest blog… Relieving the Pressure by Living in the Present: Cath Duncan Interview
23 September 2009, 10:43 am
Friar,
I don’t do the avatar thing you mentioned because it gives a false sense of having “done” something when actually nothing has actually been done, nothing real. And it promotes a false sense of merit. If you did not get the person off the roof of the flooded house don’t think putting a life ring around your avatar changes that. Go fill a sand bag instead. Just saying.
Solidarity is a fine thing, just do something real along with it. And you don’t necessarily have to tell anyone. If you blog about world hunger for a day, that’s good, calls attention, but go take something to a food bank too..
I guess I am saying that online actions and offline actions maybe need to be integrated to avoid that just geeks in a chat room staring at a blue screen ?
23 September 2009, 10:45 am
Kelly,
I think you’re right. And as alex says too, it’s part of a toolkit, not the whole thing. (Waves to Alex, email coming your way.)
23 September 2009, 2:22 pm
Alex,
Wisely said—and yes, very true. Definitely another tool in the kit these days.
Well, except for the part where you don’t have to live up to the obligation, because naturally I require your sage presence right here.
Janice,
The opposite side of the coin—I’m almostnotquite laughing, how can both be true—you’re right, at some times our little online lives enable us to pretend to involvement (and get virtual claps on the back for it), but walk away from RL opportunities and obligations!
Later,
Kelly
23 September 2009, 2:29 pm
As usual, you are all wrong.
Its my fault. I’ve been busy and not able to read this blog let alone comment. I will have to hire a “Life Coach” to help me “rationalize my time”.
But Friar did cut me a big fat cheque (check for you Yanks) to keep up the comments at his blog but he makes it difficult for me some time. As you can see from this weeks post, less is more, in fact if you get your stuffed animal to post for you it tends to increase the dicussion.
In reality (and I’m going to duck after I write this) niche blogs tend to fade as people tire/bore/become numb to the ideas there. (I’m ducking now)
The blogs that write about life, experience, funny mass media events never die. People read it and say “hey that’s me!” or “gosh, that was silly, I’d never do that” or my persoanl favorite “I’m glad that didn’t happen to me”
Same reason why we watch the American Idol and not PBS. This bog is too good, too intellectual and too polite (no fart jokes) for the seething mass of humanity.
And for that I am thankful.
Eyeteaguy
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
23 September 2009, 2:43 pm
@Janice
That’s exaxctly what I was trying to say. We (I mean the Royal We) will pat ourselves on the back for taking 10 minutes to change an avatar or leave a comment on a blog. But the net effect is nothing..we’re just pushing electrons around a network server.
But I have more respect for someone who actually goes out and DOES something (like build sandbags, like you said).
@Eyeteaguy
I’ve noticed my comments havent’ hit the 100 mark lately. Obviously you’re not doing your job….So NO BONUS for you!!!
23 September 2009, 2:48 pm
Eyeteaguy – yep.
Another perspective.
People watch reality TV because there’s a good chance that even if they live in a trailer, are alcoholic and work in a manure factory, they can still point and say, “what a loser that guy is” and laugh.
On the other hand, National Geographic makes them feel stupid and worthless.
So, you’ve got funny blogs or blogs about real life, and then you’ve got either focused niche blogs, or blogs that just seem unrealistic.
You know the ones I mean, where the guy writing has it all together, whatever he wants to accomplish, he puts his mind to it and it magically works out.
Sometimes you wonder if you’re hearing the whole story… and sometimes you notice a pattern, how the ideas are recycled just in time to sell a new e-book.
23 September 2009, 2:52 pm
Francis,
Um, thank you?
I’ve got a goal here. Seth Godin’s Little Niche Blog That Could has over 3,000 posts. Who’d a thunk it when all he does day in and day out is talk about remarkable marketing? I’ve got all of Experience Design to cover here!
When I overtake him, I’ll hang up my spurs.
But he keeps going forward, so for now, I’ve got to find ways to keep you from becoming comfortably numb, and ways for me to avoid resorting to…
*sigh* you have no idea how difficult it is for me to type this…
… ways for me to avoid resorting to fart jokes. (The very idea!)
The “seething masses,” unbeknownst to them, are THE key players in Experience Design every doggone day. By the time I hit my 3,000th post, I expect they’ll all be hangin’ here instead of scrolling through lolcats.
And if not, Seth’ll probably still be going. If he can do it, I can…
Until later,
Kelly
23 September 2009, 2:54 pm
Brett,
I haven’t got anything together, if that’s any help to you.
23 September 2009, 3:00 pm
If you really want 3,000 comments, put up a nude picture of yourself.
If you really want 3,000 serious comments, I dunno. I am always on the outside looking in. I seem to always be in the minority. So that fact that I hang out here may not bode well for you.
On the other hand if you do eventually get 3,000 comments that means there are a lot more people out there like me.
And on that scarey thought, pull my finger.
Eyeteaguy
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
23 September 2009, 3:02 pm
Ahaha.
Not 3,000 comments. 3,000 posts. Articles, in other words.
I know, you post kinda rarely, so you probably forgot.
23 September 2009, 3:03 pm
@Kelly
Did you know (so I’ve heard), that Seth can quadruple his blog traffic, just by waving his hands over his keyboard? (He only does this a few times a day, so as to give other bloggers a chance).
It’s been said that he solved the crisis in the Mid-East with a single Tweet. (But then George Bush came by and ruined everything again).
And (here’s where the low-brow joke comes in), when Seth farts, it apparently sounds like the Von-Trapp kids singing.
And smells like oven-fresh cinnamon buns.
Friar´s latest blog… (…………)
23 September 2009, 3:08 pm
*falls off chair laughing*
I LOVE THE MCE COMMUNITY.
Say what you will…
23 September 2009, 3:09 pm
ROFLOL!!!! Ahhh, the intelligentsia are here…
( and oh poo, Friar must be letting his little bear out again…must go see…)
23 September 2009, 3:15 pm
You’re okay in my book, Kelly – reality is the best reality show.
There’s two kinds of people I don’t trust.
People who don’t like dogs, and people who outwardly have it all together.
Because you just know when they fart, they’ll blame it on your dog.
23 September 2009, 3:15 pm
@Kelly – What if the MCE for a given situation is fart jokes?
@Friar – Talk about the hills being alive with the sound of music…
~Graham
23 September 2009, 3:15 pm
If you want 3,000 post just write more often.
Anything else I can help you with?
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
23 September 2009, 3:28 pm
Graham,
Then, as you can see with my struggle to type those letters in that order, I’m in trouble.
Though it appears I can get by with a little help from my friends.
Francis,
What would I do without you? Thanks. And here I thought I should just write for a few more years. Persistence and all that. Why, if I put out 500 posts a week, I could catch up before the holidays!
Dear Clients,
This is how you know working with Kelly is going to be very cool. Never a dull moment…
Later,
Kelly
23 September 2009, 4:17 pm
@Kelly
I come here because it’s FUN and I learn a lot – you like me commenting because I keep telling you how much I love and pay attention to your advice.
Alex Fayle | Someday Syndrome´s latest blog… What Carries You Through The Tough Times?
23 September 2009, 4:27 pm
Alex,
You got me.
23 September 2009, 4:31 pm
Group hug! *barf*
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
23 September 2009, 4:38 pm
And Brett just sent me a Little Bear cartoon clip… Ahhhhhhh so sweet I am going to have to ration it…:)
And Kelly,
Business is SO much more palatable when it can be fun too, especially if you’re in the enhancement business. I mean seriously, eat your veggies because they are good for you gets OLD real quick. Eat your veggies cause we have a new sampler of origin chocolate? Much better.
23 September 2009, 5:15 pm
@Graham
Yeah, the hills are alive. (Just like that Von Trapp kid sang:
“Adieu…Adieu…to Yieu, and Yieu, and Yie-eu.”
(*insert musical fart accompaniment here*)
Pffft, ppp ppp pfft, Pp ptt ptt pttt…
Pffft, ppp ppp ppft, pp Poooo…
23 September 2009, 5:32 pm
*sigh*
All in a day’s discussion here at the Maximum Customer Experience Blog…
23 September 2009, 5:41 pm
@Kelly
YEAH..but lookit all the comments you got!
Friar´s latest blog… (…………)
24 September 2009, 11:16 am
47 comments.
When you get to 50 my automatic retainer kicks in.
Ka-ching!
Eye$$$guy
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
24 September 2009, 2:32 pm
Francis,
Don’t forget—I discount kickbacks (*ahem* “retainers”) 10% for every lowbrow, completely off-topic comment.
Oops! Bet that’s zero right about now…
24 September 2009, 2:36 pm
I consider myself insulted.
My comments may contain some humour (sorely lacking before I got here) but I always move the discussion along.
It’s all part of my patented “Increase Your Comments” course now on sale. Buy now while quantities last.
Eyeteaguy
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
24 September 2009, 2:49 pm
Oh, good. We’re back on-topic, then.
24 September 2009, 2:51 pm
No comment.
~Graham
24 September 2009, 2:54 pm
I’m trying to work fecal matter into my comment but… oops, just did.
@Graham
Isn’t No Comment a comment unto itself?
Eyeteaguy
P.S. I’ll bet Kelly was wishing work would pick up for me again.
Eyeteaguy´s latest blog… Lessons you can learn from F1 – revisited
24 September 2009, 2:56 pm
@Eyetea – Aye, and there’s the rub. I’ll leave that for Kelly and your billing department to sort out.
~Graham
1 October 2009, 10:00 am
I’m late to this (way, way behind on my RSS feeds), sorry.
Of course the web is changing. I put up my first web page sometime in 1991 – you want to talk about change? I’ll tell you about change!
It’s soon going to change even more. Google Wave started sending out invitations yesterday (I didn’t get one, darn it!). Gizmodo says Apple’s next product is goung to radically change newspapers and magazines – if you pay attention to HOW, it looks just like Google Wave.
What’s scary about all this for bloggers is that it’s very unclear how we’re going to make money after these changes. We don’t know yet how this is all going to shake out – changes could be minimal or they could be earth shattering.
Another sea-change could be micropayments. Newspapers want this badly, and sites like mine would love it too. My bet is this nver gets legs, but if I’m wrong, it will be a whole new world wide web.
Finally, governments are getting more and more worried about security. There is pressure to do more with packet source identification – great for cutting down on spam, but scary for whistle-blowers, political dissidents et al.
But: no matter what, cream floats and you know what sinks. I’m not worried about the popularity of my pages and you have no reason to worry about yours.
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… Google Micropayments
1 October 2009, 12:12 pm
Speaking of RSS feeds: I got to the bottom finally and realized I was subscribed to you TWICE!
Your fault – if you didn’t write such good stuff that never would have happened.
So CUT IT OUT! I have enough to get through each day!
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… C is for Crap by Andrew Smallshaw
1 October 2009, 2:24 pm
Tony,
Thanks for the kind words!
I did a post with a drooling mention of Google Wave a couple of months ago. That is going to be SO cool. A change I can hardly wait to see.
Is it not rather unclear how we make money via blogging now? LOL.
I love the idea, but I can’t imagine micropayments working. The difference between free and 1¢, as has been said so many times, is enormous.
All you readers and commenters: if I were to charge even a dollar a week (Be honest, I’m not making any plans to do so), would you keep reading? I don’t believe you would. Even though you love MCE tremendously, of course.
And I’ll tell you, I’m pretty selective about what I read regularly now (less than 30 subscriptions—time is money!), but if they started charging even a dollar a week, all but… four, I guess… would go. I’d even jettison Seth Godin (yes, Friar, I would), and wait for his books to come out, because I know they’re the very best of his thinking anyway.
In my not-too humble opinion, micropayments are fool’s gold. There must be a better answer…
Until later,
Kelly
1 October 2009, 2:33 pm
A dollar a week?
A dollar a YEAR per visitor would net me $200,000 – but yeah, I don’t think even that will fly. Yet the newspapers are going to try it, bless their little I-don’t-understand-this-Internet-thingy hearts.
Yes, I do think it’s pretty clear how one makes money now: products/services or advertising or both. In theory Wave will let us do the same thing, but it’s often funny how a little wrinkle in the bed-sheet can make you so darn uncomfortable…
I’m not selective. I’m a net-omnivore, devouring a disparate collection of sites. But you do have the honor of being the only one I subscribed to twice
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… More routers used as switches
1 October 2009, 2:37 pm
And by the way: Seth is NOT on my list. I really can’t understand why people worship him – for me, he is banal and quite boring. Different strokes, I guess.
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… C is for Crap by Andrew Smallshaw
1 October 2009, 2:52 pm
Tony,
If I had 200,000 visitors a year…
I’d have to have started seven years earlier, as I always say. LOL.
Absolutely, some clients come to me through reading the blog and I’m massively grateful for that, but that’s not directly making money by the existence of the blog, at least not the way I look at it. The blog’s part of the marketing mix in that sense—something I pay for, with tremendous amounts of time (I’m not one of those who claims to write posts in a half an hour, not at all), that nets me a variety of indirect benefits, including meeting great folks who may wind up working with me.
Sometimes, in the wee hours of the night, wiping the blood from one’s brow as one finishes another post, one wishes for a little more direct connection.
Later…
1 October 2009, 3:01 pm
Ooops – my math was off. I get more like 200,000 unique visitors a month – a dime a year from each would give me $200,000 – but that’s NOT going to happen.
Or at least *I* don’t think it will happen. Don’t misunderstand; I’d do it in a heartbeat if everyone else did. But that’s what it would take:” we’d all have to hold our breath and dive in at once, leaving the readers no free alternative. I figure somebody gives up, comes up for air and immediately everybody else’s head pops out too and THAT experiment is all over.
As to the effort/reward ratio: you have to decide if its worth it. I don’t even think about how much time I spend on posts because I’d do it anyway – half an hour or half the week, ten cents or a thousand dollarrs, it just doesn’t matter.
YMMV.
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… More routers used as switches
1 October 2009, 3:20 pm
Agreed heartily. Two years and 400ish posts into it I’d still say starting the MCE Blog is one of the best things I’ve ever done for myself. Nevermind the business ROI. That’s why I said there are a variety of indirect benefits.
Not everything can be measured, even by a metrics-fanatic like me.
1 October 2009, 3:29 pm
(I’ve been lurking.) I read an interesting art post on content and fees and how we are not in the content selling business, but the format selling business. Books are formats the publishers sell, newspapers too, and so on. When the format costs change you better be the one selling the new format…apple/ipods/iphones, amazon/kindle, like that if you want to make real money from content. I don’t know how that translates exactly to blogs, except that people who make real money at that are selling speaking engagements, face to face experiences, one on one or group training experiences. So that the vehicle is a conduit for the content, but not exactly what is being sold.
(I hope that makes sense. )
1 October 2009, 3:50 pm
Janice,
Good point. The content may be given away in one format and sold in another… not what I think of as a direct model, but critical for many of us who like bread on the table!
& hahaha. You did not answer whether you’d pay to read MCE. C’mon. Say it, I’m braced.
I know I still rock so hard I make Motorhead cry (as Brett would say), even though a pay model is a massive barrier. I think it would be kind of refreshing to say that out loud. The Emperor has very, very little clothing on in this new world. I love a lot of blogs—but I’d only pay to read the four I’m an insane fanatic about, that I get value beyond rubies from, day in and day out, for personal or professional reasons.
That, dear readers, is what Maximum Customer Experience is really all about. (Naturally, I hope I create it for lots of you!)
If you happen to click on the Seth link I threw into that earlier comment, he’s talking about the pros and cons of putting up the barrier. Always a great topic for discussion.
Later,
Kelly
1 October 2009, 4:09 pm
LOL.. I had read that from Seth before. I have mixed feelings. I would not pay for anyone’s blog at the moment. But that is a function more of my very reduced revenue stream than a function of anyone’s value.
And there is a barrier to your business and mine already. The actual work we do is real, bricks and mortar real. To get that, dollars must be exchanged. Our presence here is a sample, as you say, part of the marketing mix, just as showing up at the local Kiwanis might be for the President of the Whitney Bank, or being on the President’s Committee for The Wetlands, King Milling ( yes that is his real name) is not selling the Kiwanis, or one more meeting, or one more effort with PEW… but he is showing that the Whitney is in it for the long haul, that he, and by his efforts, the bank wants to be there to build, to loan, to bridge, to provide, to profit even ( yes that’s what good banks do). So he shows up with unbelievable endurance and poster boards or notes or in a tuxedo if that’s what it takes. Or hops on a boat. Does he charge? No, he connects. The bank charges. LOL and it gives back. Good business, that.
5 October 2009, 4:49 am
Leo from Zen Habits asked for donations when he was getting started and had buit up a reputation.
I’m considering doing the same – framing it like shareware – “I do it for free and do it because I love it, but if you get value out of it, then please contribute to the time and effort it took me to build the blog and the content that helps you so much.”
Perhaps make it a subscription style donation of $1 a month. I’d be interested in seeing how many people would follow up with it.
Alex Fayle | Someday Syndrome´s latest blog… Dealing with Negativity: The Lab Rats Look for Naysayers
5 October 2009, 6:46 am
Janice,
Yes, I suppose that’s the way I think of this blog, like a bridge. It would be interesting if it were a toll bridge, but the problem (which I’m well aware of), is that bridges are necessary, and sharp, insightful, occasionally witty writing is not. (So I write it to be as close to “necessary” as possible, so y’all can enjoy it and encourage more folks to come ’round. And I don’t kid myself about charging for this bridge.)
Alex,
I don’t have stats, because people are kind of tight-lipped about such things, but I’ve heard anecdotally that donation boxes don’t collect much. It doesn’t cost a thing to put one up, though… it might be an interesting experiment.
Later,
Kelly
5 October 2009, 8:42 am
I can tell you something about that, though I have to warn up front that Your Mileage WILL Vary.
I’ve done donation boxes. I got a fair amount from that – mostly $1 – $10, but a lot of $50 contributions, quite a few $100′s and one incredible $500 check.
However – remember that a large part of my site is techy – people find answers to problems that cost them a lot of money/aggravation. It’s not likely someone will send you $500 for being witty.
Advertising worked much, much better for me. But again: I’m mostly tech. Even if I’m being light, I’m probably saying something that will trigger an ad for something expensive. Those ads can pay well: while most ads might be worth 50 cents to the site owner, a lot of those can be $5-$10 per click.
If I were actively seeking donations, I’d do it like public radio: once a year, and take your readers on a major guilt trip.
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… Vim:; edit with vim by Girish Venkatachalam
5 October 2009, 9:33 am
I was never one for tip jars, especially if a blog was in any way attached to a business. It looks kind of desperate, I think, and why turn off potential clients like that?
Months (over a year?) ago I did a bit of research into the ROI of blogs. What I discovered is that a very, very few people actually make a living through advertising on their blogs. Unless you are among that blogging royalty, you need to find other reasons to blog, like simply for fun or as a type of loss leader for your business.
For example, if I were to consider a blog as part of a business plan at all (and I am planning a new blog right now), I would look at it as more of a marketing expense rather than a direct money maker. I would use the blog to demonstrate leadership in my industry and to attract organic traffic, and let my “real” services pay the bills.
What I found is that there can be a lot of money in this type of business model. It might take time to develop, but if you are a small business that can count on repeat business from clients, all it takes is a few new ones every once in a while to keep the hopper full. Blogging is cheaper than “traditional” advertising, and it is certainly a lot more fun!
~Graham
5 October 2009, 11:34 am
That was good to read Graham. Thanks.:)
6 October 2009, 3:44 pm
Hm. Something wrong, I’m not getting all these responses in my email. A small techy problem causing me aggravation…
Tony,
What? No ROI in being witty?
Well, since I probably only succeed half the time, I guess I’m only half-doomed.
LOL—I love the “take your readers on a major guilt trip” idea. I still don’t know whether it would work, but I agree, it’s better than the sidebar-blindness that would affect readers if the donation box was there all the time.
Graham,
Hey, I could try that!
(Just wanted to make sure it’s still all about ME, since that’s the title here.)
Yes, it works. And you point out “it might take time to develop.” Let’s restate: warning-warning, NO ONE GETS how slow it is if you didn’t start when Tony did (or if you refuse to involve naked booty or LOLcats). And even as I type this, the next reader to come along will think, yeah, yeah, but it won’t take *me* long to get my beach house in Malibu…
I say this way too often to people: show me who needs you badly enough to overcome their innate desire to do NOTHING.
Heck, you can even see naked booty for free, these days. Ask all the people who come here thinking I’m the other you-know-who, and run away in shame and disgust. (“EEEEW! BUSINESS ADVICE!!! That’s just sick!!!”)
For those readers who don’t know what I’m talking about right now, I offer you this link.
Later…
6 October 2009, 4:07 pm
“No ROI in being witty?”
Not that I’ve noticed… though I’ve often been called a half-wit, so that might explain it.
As to slow growth: I wish I had kept visitor stats from years back. It would be a great object lesson.
But I think it’s important to remember that for a lot of us, making money through the web was accidental and mostly unintended. I started my website because I was lazy: I was constantly repeating myself on Usenet (90% of your readers won’t even know what that is), so instead I wrote up primitive web pages and started telling people “Go look at THIS for the answer to that”.
I can’t remember when I got my first long-distance client because of that web page. I can’t remember who it was either and I’d like to say that was an epiphany for me, but it wasn’t: I probably had half a dozen more before I realized that I should be actively TRYING to get new clients that way. What can I say – I didn’t have websites like Kelly’s to make me market aware back then
Same thing with advertising. When I first added it, I thought it might be useful for my readers – contextual ads might be something they’d be interested in. When I got my first earnings report, my eyes opened wide and I thought yeah, good for them AND good for me!
The only thing I’ve done on the web that absolutely started as a money making thing was writing e-books, and even that was driven by people asking me to do it. If people hadn’t been nagging me, I probably wouldn’t have bothered because it’s hard work and it doesn’t pay all that well. Not that I’m complaining: it pays well enough.
Arrgh. There I go again: taking what could have been tomorrow’s post and throwing it away as a comment instead.
Tony Lawrence´s latest blog… Analysing Web Logs for Search